Segment 1: The Growth of First-Party Data Tech

David Raab of the CDP Institute, growth advisor Anand Thaker, and Chitra Iyer talk about the rise of first-party data tech - from personalization platforms to experience clouds, data integration to CDPs and everything in between.

Highlights of the discussion include:

  • Factors behind the rise of ‘first-party data tech’
  • What’s problematic about ‘consent’ replacing cookies
  • Why publishers will make data vendors irrelevant over time (and the trouble with that). Hint: think mini walled gardens and the need for fair data exchange co-ops
  • Why CDPs could take over where DMPs left off

Segment 2: The CDP Institute’s 2020 CDP Industry Update

The CDP Institute revealed all the data that’s shaping the CDP industry as we head into 2020, and we have the man himself- David Raab – to answer questions that we think you are thinking. Starting with the over 8 CDP acquisitions in 2019 to the most recent one by Salesforce, to why marketers need simpler labels to help define what the platforms do.

Highlights of the discussion include:

  • Why and how the CDP industry is consolidating and why the number of stand-alone CDPs will come down
  • The Salesforce acquisition of Evergage.  Omer Artun, Founder of AgilOne - a CDP that itself got acquired by Acquia in 2019, is now the Chief Science Officer at Acquia. Here’s his comment on the Evergage acquisition: “Salesforce knew they had a huge gap in customer data and customer intelligence.  Their service cloud, marketing cloud (Exacttarget), CRM and Demandware don't talk to each other in any customer-specific way. They first claimed Krux would become their customer hub, then they bought Mulesoft then bought Dataroma, a marketing dashboard company which they are trying to build a CDP around. Now, they are putting their money behind Everage. However, Evergage is not a CDP - it's web personalization that can handle profiles.  Most brands are looking for robust identity resolution, analytics capabilities that can stitch and analyze many sources of data. Evergage can neither stitch in an enterprise manner nor offers analytics with any rigor.” So, how will this acquisition exactly help its customers? We tell you.
  • The role of CRM in the data-driven marketing landscape and why labels will matter (or not) when it comes to offering CX solution platforms
  • Why ‘campaign CDPs’ are the fasted growing CDP segment today (even though ‘data CDPs’ are the most funded)

Get your free copy of the CDP Institute’s 2020 Industry Update for free, from here.

Hail of the Week:

We start 2020 on a positive note with a big hail for privacy-related funding:

Follow us on SoundCloudSpotifyGoogle podcast or leave us a review on iTunes. Have a great week. Thank you!

[00:00:00] Welcome to the talking stack — Martech Advisors Weekly News podcast.

[00:00:04] Join us as Martech experts David Raab  Anand Thaker and Editor Chitter Iyer talk about the things that mattered this week in Martech.

Chitra [00:00:14] Hey, Marketers! Welcome back to Season 3 of the Talking Stack. We've now done 64 episodes of the show since we began about two years ago, covering everything that's current news concepts, mergers, acquisitions, new launches, all the stuff that we felt was significant to us as users or vendors of martech. And also, we've interviewed some great guests along the way over 40 CXO's from both the vendor and marketers side. So I am delighted to say that thanks to your support, we are now going to season three. So thank you for listening. Following, subscribing and commenting. Please continue to do that to show that you care, and we'll stay on-air in Season 3.

Chitra [00:00:56] David Raab and Anand Thaker join me once again. And we are making a few changes in the format that we think will help our listeners instead of four episodes a month. We are going to do three. One every ten days or so, and we are going to do about two episodes that are all about current happenings, trends, reports, Surveys. Stuff that you absolutely need to know about when it comes to being on top of all that's martech. And then we'll have one episode where we have a guest each month. And we are hoping this season to have a lot more guests from the marketing and practitioners side. So people who have Martech in their title, who use the martech that's out there, who plan and invest in the martech that they have and build out and keep their stacks rational as they go along. So stay tuned and do-follow or Subscribe to get alerted about new episodes on time. So today, our 65th episode and the first of season 3. We're getting right down to business.

We talk about the growth of data-driven marketing led by what's increasingly being called first-party data tech. You may have heard this term; you may have read about it. So today, we're going to help deconstruct it. We hear a lot of labels like people-based marketing, tech, experience clouds, marketing clouds, omnichannel marketing platforms. And of course, some of those older labels like data integration, identity resolution, and of course, CDPs of all hues from Data CDPs to analytics, campaign, and orchestration. And what have you? So we'll start by talking about what all these mean and why the way we label them might matter. And then we'll also talk a little bit more in detail about the CDP industry based on the CDP Institute's latest half-yearly report. We have David here, of course, who will help us unpack some of what those trends around acquisitions and funding in the CDP space mean to you as you make decisions around your data-powered customer experience strategy. Including a little bit of time spent on what sales forces acquisition of Evergage might mean to those of you who are salesforce customers and users. So, David, Anand, welcome back to season three. Thanks for sticking by us through all of these many episodes. Let's start by talking about the way the data-driven marketing conversation is evolving with this narrative around the first-party tech as we're hearing it now.

Chitra [00:03:16] David, let's start with you.

David [00:03:18] You know, data-driven marketing. Well, as you say, it's the meaning of it has changed over time, and vendors do sort of tend to adapt on their system, whatever label is, you know, the name does Europe because it's easier to change the label than it is to change the policy. Right. So there's a certain amount of that's going on. I think that underneath that, that the fundamental change that you're seeing is, as you say, from just using data for analytics, kind of decide what to do to use data about individual customers as you are interacting with those customers to tailor the experience directly to them. And that is a relatively new thing. You really couldn't do it until we had interactive systems where you knew who you were talking to when you were talking to them. And that's what makes it Danu resolution so crucial because obviously, that resolution is precisely what allows you to know in real-time as you're talking who you're talking to. So it is a very, very hot area.

David [00:04:14] The thing that is probably changing the dynamic within that area is, of course, cookies and the imminent demise of cookies, which makes it much harder for advertisers, at least snow who they're talking to because that's what they were relying on third-party cookies to do. You know, when you're talking about your communications, your first-party data when someone who you already know is on your Web site, and they've logged in or, you know, some other technique to identify their device or whatever, then you're not so relying on cookies. However, you still have the ability to understand.

David [00:04:47] OK. Here's this person. I have a history of them which might be in my CDP here, wherever it resides. You know, so I understand what they've done, and I maybe understand other information about them from other sources. So now I can tell on that interaction to their needs in addition to observing what they're doing during the current interaction, which, you know, on a Web site or a call center situation. And then further, you know, taking that data and all very, very much in real-time, reacting to that and adjusting what's going on. So that's a lot to do. You know, in milliseconds, but that's where the technology is pushing us. So the system systems that can do that are systems that are very sophisticated and are possibly adaptions of systems that were developed in a sort of know, more elegant, slower age, slower-paced age than the one that we live in now. But they do have to make some changes. They can't just take the old technology and slap a new label on it and be legitimate players in the industry.

Chitra [00:05:49] But do you think Merkle is onto something when they say they want to be leaders in the first-party data tech space? I mean, do all these solutions then come really under that umbrella, including CDPs and identity resolution, omnichannel marketing platforms, experience clouds, whatever?

David [00:06:06] Well, all right, so what's pushing this notion of, you know, being a leader in first-party data is again the concern about the death of third party data, which is somewhat exaggerated, but an issue. Right. Some people are saying, well, a third party data goes away. What are we left with? We're left with first-party data, and we're also left with second-party data, which is a whole other discussion. So there are a lot of companies that are saying, well, you know, I yeah, I've always had this first-party data, but I've kind of just used it a little bit. But now it becomes a more critical kind of by default because of less third party data. So let me really focus on that. And a lot of publishers, for example, who gathered first-party data, which first point to the publisher now are trying to find ways to utilize that. Not necessarily share because the privacy rules make it much harder to share, but certainly to make it available to average risers, even if they don't know who they're talking to. To understand why the public should know exactly who I'm talking to a song and to tell the publisher who I want to talk to or what kind of people, what segments I want to talk to, and then it'll be up to the publisher to find those people using their first-party data. So that's a lot of what's going on. We see that in all kinds of areas. Any place where someone has an audience that they own, where they're trying to sell access or monetize that audience. That's where a lot of this first-party data leadership comes in that Merkel is talking about. An ad agency owns Merkel.

Anand [00:07:31] You also see that maybe this is the reason why there'll be more movement in the space in terms of more sophisticated broader platforms and fewer, fewer point solutions because that data sharing capacity is going to go away and that the need to be able to have that data owned by the brand through its entire journey or as much of that journey as possible, means you need to have a system that can take that from soup to nuts. You see something along those lines, which is where I kind of feel like my head's at with a lot of the movement that we've seen this year and certainly. As a result, last year.

David [00:08:04] Know, I think you're right. Again, as third party data becomes less available, brands are more motivated to make better use of their first-party data. So that does force them to do things like integrating across systems where you know before it just wasn't that much pressure. It wasn't as important to do it. So I think we will see brands that collect all these different pools of first-party data that hitherto been separate, saying, well, wait a minute, you know, you do need to pull these together so that we can get the value from them. And, you know, that's yeah, that's a good part of what's going on. And that applies again, both to, you know, brands that are branded as opposed to brands that are publishers whose job has always been audience aggregation. But still, you don't see a lot of publishers, and you know, their audience is there separate from their different properties. And they also have a much greater need to pull that together so they can sell a unified audience. So we see that happening too.

Anand [00:09:04] I've heard these conversations revolved around this and the concern behind it. Indeed, from a trusted perspective, but also, you know, being fined and indeed the bad negative press as a result of that, the security and liabilities related to these things, especially in breaches, occur. I've heard collectively or not collectively have heard from a number of vendors who are yanking lots of integrations with other potential solutions or even curtailing API's to have greater scrutiny.

David [00:09:37] Consent rules under CCPA in particular, but also GDPR, you know, pretty rigorous. And the vast majority of current consent approaches don't fit the requirements. So there is a much, much bigger concern about actually having data that is legitimately usable. And, you know, big companies who are the ones who are going to get sued are very are being increasingly careful about pulling away from sources where they don't understand how that data has been acquired. And if it's valid. That's probably going to be a huge, huge change. And really how this sort of slow-moving impact on third party data, you know, more so than Cookie. Cookie, Alya, cookies go away. We know we're in trouble. Well, yeah. But what people are doing is, is their kind of substituting in some ways consent for cookies. But that consent then, in turn, comes under examination of, well, is it valid consent? And course, you know, if you do it right, consent is for specific purposes, and it gets more complicated. So companies are going to be much more wary about taking data that has been claimed to approval, but they don't know for sure it's been consent that's going have a huge impact that's going to kind of roll out over time.

Chitra [00:10:50] But wouldn't that make the first-party data of publishers all the more attractive than to advertisers? Because if I'm a publisher, see a newspaper that has the right amount of traffic, and I have, you know, got the consent I need for people who consume my content, etc. then, you know, maybe the advertisers hold body data. But I'm the publisher's first body data, right. And I've been acquired the right way. And so while having those might become more and more irrelevant or, you know, not as trusted as the source, publishers, on the other hand, will become increasingly more powerful in this whole setup.

David [00:11:29] Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, there's the whole wall garden problem, right? It was just a headline the other day about lots of new walled gardens popping up, little tiny walled gardens. So you know that. And that's what they do. But of course, advertisers don't want to have to go out and make a hundred different pies. Right. They want to. That was the whole beauty of programmatic to begin with, these big exchanges. I just have one place to go. So now what we're seeing is a beginning to see these sorts of marketplaces or consortia, whatever you want to call them, co-ops, where are the different publishers can contribute their data in a privacy-safe way, which means you don't expose API. Still, you expose attributes and say, well, you know, OK, I want to buy people who meet these criteria. Now the publishers go out, use their first-party data to then serve ads to those people without exposing their identities to the advertisers directly. So that's kind of where we see things going.

David [00:12:37] And that's, again, a significant change. It'll take some infrastructure to get that in place, to put those kinds of marketplaces and co-ops in place. But we think that's going to happen. And hopefully, that presents enough scale that it's a viable competitor to, you know, buying from Facebook and Google. And, you know, that the traditional walled gardens who have been so dominant. So, you know, some chinks in the gardens and all that. So those walls are crumbling along with the cookies. And maybe there's a gingerbread house that combines the two. I don't know.

Chitra [00:13:11] And then when I can see the relevance of data exchange in that case, and that will continue to remain for programmatic. But I'm wondering then if CDP's will take the place of the DMP's? Because every public show will just have their CDP that talks how they do that on demises it, then they can use it, you know, its CDP's will start needing to have anonymization features as well. And then, you just use that data and send it to an exchange.

David [00:13:38] Well, remember, the DMP's are built on cookies, those cookies crumble, DMP,  crumble as well. All those little fragments on the ground will probably get pecked at by the birds. Who are the Siddiqui's in this metaphor that developing as we speak? Maybe they're dragons like bird frying that Cookie comes or something. We can work on this off-line, I think. But yeah. And in general, we see a lot of concern among the DMP vendors about losing business.

David [00:14:06] And a lot of interest in people combining CDPs with DMP functionality. There are some technical issues because they're kind of built differently. So you can't just use a CDP for what it DMP does, but it's possible. And we are seeing some cases now where people are finding ways to supplement their CDP architecture with a more real-time architecture that's more suited to the very, very quick response requirements of the DMP.

Anand [00:14:35] So right now, we live in a cloud-based world where everything seems to be integrated — but having some segregations on separation for auditing purposes for controls, right. Sort of like having a monitored barrier to ensure, you know, there's the integrity of the data. Then the purpose of that data, you know, for the practitioners out there, if you're trying to figure this out, I wouldn't worry about trying to put everything in one piggy bank. Sometimes having different you know, different banks to have different data for different purposes is not such a bad thing as long as you have, you know, for the reasons of liability and appropriate controls and security measures that are increasingly becoming important as well.

David [00:15:18] That's right, that there are, again, all these auditing control issues and keeping trails of where the data came from and getting back to consent and how it was used. A lot of new legal requirements around that. So the systems have to become way more rigorous than they've been to meet those needs.

Chitra [00:15:37] Since David spoke so unbiasedly about CDPs, possibly taking over about what DMP's do. Let's talk a little bit more about CDP's. It is a hugely growing space. Your latest industry report just came out, and Anand and I, you know, have a lot of questions around what's in the report. I'm sure our listeners would rather you know, they would no doubt want to download the report and see for themselves all the details that are in there. And the links to the report will be in the show, notes and transcript as well. But today, I wanted to pull out two aspects of what's in this report.

Chitra [00:16:12] One is, you know, let's talk a little bit. Let's do a recap of all the acquisitions of and By CDPs and what they indicate. And two, I wanted to talk about the overall growth pattern of the space between the different kinds of windows, CDP windows that we have today have the rates that they're growing, and why that might be why some kind of Siddiqui's are growing faster than the others, etc. So to start with, you know, let me do a quick recap for our listeners about the big acquisitions that happen in 2019. There was, you know, the MasterCard acquisition of SessionM, Equifax acquired Datalicous. Dun and Bradstreet acquired lattice engines. Acquia acquired AgilOne. Kabbage, which was a fintech company for small businesses, acquired Grevious and a plan acquired Mintigo Snowflake Acquired Stride, and Zeta Global acquired ignition one. , you know, at least eight that I can list out. Sure. That there may be others that, you know, were acquisitions or different sort. Before we talk about the acquisitions made by CDP's, let's talk about these acquisitions of CDP's. We see a mix here of like big companies that have bought CDP's obviously to improve because they have such a huge volume of customers. It makes sense for them, I suppose, to invest or I'd like to understand better about that. And then there's this other kind of sort of tech company that's acquired. So I don't know what ana plan do with a Mintigo, for example. In fact, in your report, there are almost shown as CDP's that have gone out of business radius Mintigo raid ignition one. So yeah, I'd love to hear why you separated them like that.

David [00:17:55] Well, they're separated because those other ones are not being offered anymore as products 'cause you can't buy radius today or  Mintigo or STRIDE. They were simply the assets that were purchased by the company. Ignitionone kind of in-between. It was an asset sale, but Zeta sort of kind of is still selling the product maybe, or they're selling a new product as maybe it as opposed to the other acquisitions, you know, sessionM and by MasterCard and Agile Lawn and Lattice, which are still being sold as products. So. So it's a pretty fundamental different one is kind of going out of business. You know, they may end up with some of the functionality within a cabbage or in an ad plan, or a Snow White snowflake is a database company. But it's no; you can't buy those products anymore.

David [00:18:47] So that's you know, that's an exit of the sort. And a true asset acquisition. Whereas such an ad presumably will be used by MasterCard as a product, more as a loyalty system probably than SCDP. But a little bit of both as something that their clients, their merchants, the MasterCard merchants can purchase as an added service from MasterCard. So, you know, what those things indicate is the beginning of a consolidation, a bit of us sorting out of the industry, some of the guys who haven't made it just to go to, you know, cut their losses and sell their assets and be done with it. The other companies, like MasterCard or Dun & Bradstreet, Aquia, who want to have this as a service, will go out and buy a suitable product rather than building their own. Because, of course, it's not that easy to build a CDP. And, you know, along the line you have mentioned a lot of funding also happened just in the last six months of companies that were kind of bulking up basically to say, you know, we need to build up our war chest so we can kind of make a run at the top of the market. It was very interesting to me when I looked at who was doing the deals that, you know, only one of the eleven or so deals forgetting about the asset sales was a top-five vendor. You know, it wasn't like the first rank guys, most of M?ori done big fundings. Previously it was the guys who like just in that second tier and the, you know, number 10 to number 30 roughly in the industry out of 100 who were so all of a sudden kind of saying, you know what, wait, you we're going to grow big, or we're going to sell to somebody else, or we're just going to, you know. So they kind of had those two choices of some of them sold and some of them, you know, took on some additional funding to sort of making a run at the top, because we know that the market right now is still very, very fluid. You know, a lot of sort of mid-tier vendors. No one vendor has any sort of remotely dominant market share. But, you know, certainly, as Salesforce and Adobe and Oracle and Microsoft enter the market, you know, there's going to be some change and some pressure on those guys. And there's not going to be a 100 CDP vendors in three years. You know, it'll take a little while, but the number of true certainly independent vendors who primarily sell SCDP as opposed to companies who have CDP as part of a larger suite. The number of independent, standalone CDPs, you know, for sure, it's just going to have to come down. So these guys are saying, well, you know, we're gonna try to get to be big enough to be among the survivors.

Chitra [00:21:22] What do you make of that most recent acquisition of EverGage by Salesforce? What message do you think they are sending to their customers? And I'm sure many of our listeners osseous with customers about what they can expect in terms of a more seamless data management to data activation capability that CRM somewhere in the middle in there.

David [00:21:40] They were very clear in their messaging that the Evergage was not a CDP acquisition. From their perspective, every gage is one of those companies that is more of a personalization and interaction management tool that built up the capability to qualify as a CDP, because if you're going to do proper personalization, interaction management has to have all the data assembled. So like many companies in that space, they kind of backed into being the DP because they needed it just to kind of do what they needed to do and to be a CDP have to meet some other criteria like making that data available to other systems which they had done. But still, their focus was really that what Salesforce bought them for was for that personalization, for that Real-Time Interaction Management Salesforce all he was selling something called Interaction Suite, which, although Everybody was not supposed to admit it was a license version of a product called Thunderhead. Some guys weren't allowed to say that, and Salesforce never said it. But in fact, that was the case. But it was weird because Salesforce doesn't usually white label somebody else's product. And so what this is essentially is Salesforce saying, well, OK, we found there is indeed a demand for this Real-Time Interaction Management thing. I don't think Thunderhead had wanted to sell, although that's just speculation on my part. So they went out, and they bought something else. And not that they are this, you know, not that they are two identical products, but if service fills the same niche as the old interaction suite and indeed it seems if I understood Salesforce as intent cupper, they might keep the name and just sort of, you know, substitute Abagail instead of Thunderhead in future deals. So Abrogates was a CDP, and we certainly look at it as, you know, SCDP acquisition. That was not the significance of that deal for Salesforce.

Anand [00:23:32] Everybody's role in creating a more robust customer experience play. We're not talking about just, you know, the engagement of the customer at the marketing level or even acquisition of the customer. We're also talking about the support of the customers creating advocates of customers. And I think this is just this is this. I agree with David that this is not. I mean, they were very clear about this. Still, I think we're going to start to see a lot of customer experience type of acquisitions which cross the entire organization or are in other parts of the organization that works in alignment with marketing in some particular capacity or the other. I think it's the customer experience conversation that this does speak to, even though it's not front and center in the press releases that were announced.

David [00:24:19] Yeah, no, I mean, again, they had interaction sweet, so it wasn't exactly a gap because they'd had kind of plugged it in, but it wasn't their product. So but I agree, It's something that they hugely need. So they wanted to own it. You know, always interesting, a salesforce usually will by sort of category leaders, big companies. That's why you got to spend billions of dollars on a meal so off or something like that. So this was a much smaller deal. I have no idea what the price was. But, you know, just given the size of the company and again, given the fragmented state of the CDP market, they did not have a dominant market share, anything close. So this was much more of a pure technology acquisition on their point, which, you know, it just did just the admission that this was something they desperately needed to do, and they wanted to own it. They didn't want to have to sell somebody else's third party product. So, you know, it's I'm responding to the market and kind of implicitly admitting that there was a gap. Course, they never meant that there's a gap until after they fill it. But now that's the last one. Now there are no more gaps, right.

Chitra [00:25:20], so Salesforce is a CRM. Right. What do you think it's going to be called in twenty twenty-three.

David [00:25:28] You know, CRM is such an interesting term nowadays, it just has become this total capsule for anything that stores customer data, you know, back in the day CRM, it's meant something fairly specific. originally it was sales automation and that in-service automation, if you look at Salesforce as history, that's exactly what they did. And then marketing was always sort of the third rather weak leg of the stool. But all those were still sort of interaction systems that dealt directly with the customers. But now CRM just half the time means anything with my customer data in it. And in the other half the time, it means something very more that specific original definition. So people get confused with the term CRM. But that's just the nature of the industry.

Chitra [00:26:15] Mean a lot of people have CRM systems or, you know, sales forces. Oracle's SAP's as their core, you know, operating engine and things are being integrated into that. So it's a core business operation, which, you know, certainly, for software, a long time that that was going to happen just because of the nature of the type of customer-centric data and a brand going customer-centric. Meaning if you wanted to connect all those journeys experiences, that CRM is gonna be what is going to be labeled. I don't even venture to guess I'm comfortable with it called being called CRM. It's almost like the full circle is CRM at one point was kind of labeled and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but it was literally for the customer support side of things. And then Salesforce certainly. I don't know who changed the term in the meeting, but sales were certainly magnified. It's sales automation.

David [00:27:03] Labels, they're just labels. But people do have to get some mental picture of the scope of the different systems that are involved and that, and they have to just, you know, understand, well, what is it that I need? And more to the point today. You know, they all have to be connected. Back to our earlier discussion about first-party data. So is my CRM system going to encompass my Web content management, Web site personalization? That's why Salesforce goes out and buys every abrogates, because they now know that Real-Time Interaction Management, which is which goes out through the cms, that's quite, quite different from CRM, really very little overlap in anyone's mind between that and CRM. So, you know, don't get too hung up on the labels, but don't be too. Too loose with the labels either. Don't you know just loosely? Anything with customer data CRM? Well, even though I just sat there like two minutes ago. But, you know, it's dangerous to listen to me, which Everybody knows.

Chitra [00:28:04] The reason I'm interested in how the label will play out is that I think that Martech vendors are trying to put marketer-friendly labels to that, that. Now, I mean, to help marketers very easily understand the problem of what problem this solution is going to address. So less technical-sounding it is the better, I think. For example, Salesforce, you know, specifically in the case of Salesforce. is post them calling out the new capability with average as real-time personalization I think it is helpful and easy for me as a marketer to understand what it's gonna do for me.

David [00:28:34] And the marketers need to have a pretty clear mental picture of sort of what are the big components of this architecture. I have and I need a unified customer data store. I need to see CDP; I need some sort of an orchestration engine, which is really what it's gonna do. My personalization one real-time. And that's kind of one Evergage does I need my outbound channel and my web cms. I need my DMP for advertising, need my email engine for email. I need my mobile app systems for mobile apps. I need my call center system from my customer service. Those are all delivery engines that are specific channels that those other systems kind of should be feeding into.

Chitra [00:29:15] In the report, we read that the industry has seen a long film shift away from data and analytics CDPs, towards campaign and delivery CDPs. Why do you think that is? And I think that is in my head.

Chitra [00:29:26] I think that's related to what we just book about because Marketers does just find it easier to wrap their head around buying a system that does all the things that a data CDP does, Analytics CDP does  But in you know, it is addressing their final tipping point.

David [00:29:42] Yeah, that's exactly right. There's a certain division in the market between mid-tier companies who are the ones who focus on buying these campaign type CDP because they want one system. They don't want to have the integration costs of connecting a lot of different pieces, and they're willing maybe to swap out their current campaign engine for a new campaign engine as opposed to the big enterprises where those big campaign engines are, you know, very well embedded. And they're not going to change that. You know, unless you pry from their cold, dead fingers. So they are more likely to buy, you know, just this thing that just does the data piece of it that will connect to their current system. So that's a pretty clear split in the market between those two kind of approaches. But of course, all the growth happens where much of the growth happens in that mid-tier. There have been more mature companies than there are giant enterprises by definition. So so that's where a lot of the. In some ways, again, as an Evergage, it's easier for somebody who started in the personalization or some places as can campaign engine of some sort to back into being a CDP by adding some additional data management capabilities. So a lot of the firms who are in that space started and backed into it in that way.

Chitra [00:30:55] Since we wrapped up that segment with talking about investors. You know, some of the hails,  we want to do a quick Hail and Fail section for this — our first episode of the season. So there was, you know, two of The Hails, David that you pointed out for, which are to do with funding in the privacy space or the safe media spaces. Super awesome. Out of the U.K., every 17 million dollars for Kidsafe media and then security.AI for privacy technology that raised 50 million.

David [00:31:31] You know, it's good news. And there was another report that said there was about 10 billion invested in overall privacy and security last year up, you know, 10 or 11 percent over the year before, which in turn was up about 40 percent the year before that. So there is a lot of money flowing into this. You know, privacy tech space, which, you know, for those of us who care about privacy, you know, we see that that's a good thing. There is just this growing demand that is selling in and gets to be more demand as the regulations get tighter. So we're just going to see more and more companies who are focusing on that. Interestingly, we now see this sort of a trend that people who have the technology they might previously position is high technology or something like that now position it as a privacy technology. So it's cool to be a privacy vendor, which I'm just so happy, and you know, I'm going to start selling my tinfoil hat now online, I think.

Chitra [00:32:27] Absolutely. More funding for privacy is always a good thing and something to celebrate. Of course, how it pans out as a subsegment for Martech is something we will help you keep tabs on. On the Talking stack. Please follow us on SoundCloud, iTunes Spotify or whatever Podcast platform you prefer and do not miss out on new episodes that we plan to publish every ten days or so for today. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.

[00:32:52] Thanks for joining us. See you next week. With our take on the big news, the Martek World. Logon to more tech advisor dot com for more expert commentary on all things Martech

The Podcast Team

David Raab

Founder, CDP Institute and Principal, Raab AssociatesWidely recognized independent expert in customer data platforms, marketing technology and analytics; David specializes in marketing trends, technology strategy, and vendor

Anand Thaker

Martech Industry and Growth AdvisorA recognized MarTech, decisioning and AI/ML expert; Anand advises growth and go-to-market leaders and investors for global brands and funds while also being active in the startup ecosystem.

Chitra Iyer

Editor-in-Chief of Martech Advisor Editor-in-Chief of Martech Advisor and marketing veteran is the host of the show.