This week, we join the dots between location-based marketing, IOT and smartphones, online and offline customer experience, first-party data, data aggregators and GDPR.


At 1.00: The evolution of location-based marketing:


Reveal Mobile Combines Location-Based Audience Analytics and Media Buying

Captivate Offers Vertical Integration for Elevator Advertising

Gas Station TVs can see you coming

Foursquare teams up with Inscape


We discuss:

  • What is new in location-based marketing
  • What are different vendors doing?
  • What marketers need to know about location-based marketing today


At 9.00: Facebook catches pop-up fever, opening first retail shop in 9 Macy's stores


Facebook is opening its first ever pop-up shops, teaming up with Macy's to give dozens of small businesses their first perches in a nationwide chain.

The social media giant is introducing a mix of roughly 100 businesses at nine Macy's stores across the U.S. this month, through December. The small ventures will be housed within "The Market,'' a nearly year-old space carved out at various Macy's stores to put the spotlight on new or growing brands.

The big questions is why?


At 11.00: we discuss the Privacy International GDPR complaint against Oracle and other data aggregators.


This is a broad complaint against the entire prevalent business model of delivering customized CX based on behavioral data.

  • What does this mean to data aggregator companies?
  • What checks does a marketer need to put in place today to be ready for tomorrow’s first- and third-party data regulations?
  • Why this may make marketers – especially small ones- more dependent on platforms such as Facebook and Amazon (is this why they are setting up pop-up stores and engaging with small marketers?)


Tweet your thoughts and tag us too!


David Raab: @draab

Anand Thaker: @anandthaker

Amit Varshneya: @amit_varshneya

Chitra Iyer: @MoreMarInTech


The Talking Stack Survey

Follow us on SoundCloudSpotify or leave us a review on iTunes. Have a great week. Thank you.!

Chitra Iyer [00:00:18] Welcome back listeners. Today we're kicking things off with a discussion on the evolution of location-based marketing.  It's new but it's changed a lot, it's still changing. And we're going to discuss some of those radical changes. We will also discuss the GDPR related complaint filed against major data aggregators in Europe and what that's going to mean to the way you use the first and third-party data. And finally, if you stick around we are also going to talk about why some online-only players are so interested in owning the offline customer experience. And guess what we found. We found that all of those are seriously connected.

Chitra Iyer [00:00:59] So let's kick it over location-based marketing. Check out some of these recent headlines. Reveal mobile is now combining location-based audience analytics with media buying with their launch of a visit. So basically now they can identify visitors to a specified location, convert them into advertising audiences and integrate that with their audience marketplaces and media buying services. Then  Captivate places used to be ads on elevators in premium office buildings right. But now with captivate places, they are building in this whole new analytics layer to measure the campaign impact on the brand lift, foot traffic, and web behaviors.  David, it used to be that location-based marketing was basically promotional offers on your mobile phone based on where you're physically located. But obviously, things are evolving right?.

David Raab [00:01:55] It used to be that you had signs! mobile devices are not like something that your grandfather had. So you really had to think about location-based marketing is starting from when there was no location-based marketing except the physical marketing and the location. What we've seen in the last roughly 10 years is a very fast evolution where. Yeah wow! it's exciting when you could see that someone had come near to your store and put up a geofence and send him an SMS message and that was your rocket science. You know science fiction stuff. The current evolution of that is now beginning to understand who those people are in a deeper, may be able to look up in real-time do an identity resolution. Our favorite topic from last week and say I know who this person is, based on their mobile device and I know what they're interested in and I can go back to my CDP for example and look at their history and say what's the exact best message to send to this person. What we're seeing now and actually both of these announcements and some other announcements as well is taking this further and being able to after the fact tie or before the fact tie in that person's presence at the location with the advertisements  they saw earlier or possibly with the purchases that they made after so really to close the loop if you'll pardon that cliche to understand OK I ran this ad and that drove traffic to the store and that traffic actually is on when these purchases. And now I can do some serious attribution. OK. That's the amount of revenue that this ad generated in course that's been the Holy Grail where it's cliche week apparently for me that's been what people have been waiting for all these years and now they're at least getting closer and closer. What we see, I must see three or four announcements a week about somebody who's trying to do that you know. So it's very much a hot topic and it's very much something that's become more and more possible.

Amit varshneya [00:04:06] Against than the Captivate Announcement, I think it goes between the traditional billboard models right. That that David you were starting to talk about and then where it's location-based. With the level of knowing who it is that is in that location with the geo-fencing and being able to target and I think to captivate in a way because of the elevators there's a fixed portion or fixed real estate in which you're advertising sort of becomes the middle ground between these two because I know which companies are in that building, that office building that has the elevators in which I have this advertising going on. Does it make it much easier to do Account-based marketing for example because I know which companies are there and therefore I can target around those companies or is it specifically about those people that are in that elevator at this point and so which one is it or where could this go and where the opportunities are?

David Raab [00:05:08] A lot of this has to do with making it easier to buy the ads. So I don't have to go building by building as a media planner. I can say I want to buy this demographic. And because they have all the data I can more or less push a single button and it'll just give me that audience in the right elevators presumably at the right time.

Chitra Iyer [00:05:31] But it's safe to say from these announcements that location-based marketing has evolved from in the moment. Mobile promotion type marketing to really adding in layers of identity resolution analytics around connecting the onsite actions to the before and after marketing that the audience may have been exposed to. So what do you do at a physical location is impacted by  What marketing you were exposed to before you got there and after you leave them and also there's now the ability to measure that prior and subsequent behavior and make decisions based on that.

Chitra Iyer [00:06:13] And then, of course, Crisper targeting and more customized messaging based on the insights from all of that analytics layer which obviously means more efficient media buying because of the better targeting in theory at least. At the end of it, it's not just about more effective seamless on device brand experience but we're also talking about finally the ability to track, monitor and even control somewhat the onsite brand experience. That means a physical brand experience. For example, take the Foursquare announcement recently.

David Raab [00:06:48] Right. So Foursquare again. Doing a deal with Inscape and Inscape Has a technology that kind of watches you watching TV effectively and knows what ads you saw. And so then now Foursquare can say OK, Inscape told me Foursquare that these people saw this ad for McDonald's. Now I go track how many people checked into McDonald's and Foursquare and I'll make the connection between the two.

Chitra Iyer [00:07:15] Right. And aside from those announced there that there are of course the smart screens in public spaces that can track you as well. TV screens at gas stations and screens in doctors waiting rooms and things like that. You know then there's smart digital out of home marketing solutions that can even customize messages in public spaces based on your individual behavior at the moment. So essentially it looks like IoT and smartphones together are pretty much changing their location-based marketing game entirely. And we'll, of course, be tracking that space with you.

Amit varshneya [00:07:49] So yes so I'm at home I'm watching TV and I go out to get some gas on my way to work through my phone will start continuing that experience hopefully with the ads that I saw on TV or the content I saw on TV on my mobile. Then the gas station and the space that I'm coming over to the gas pump TV also start showing me that content and then I drive over to work in the elevator also shows me in content so there's no getting out of ads anymore. Everyone knows where I am.

Chitra Iyer [00:08:21] If you want to make it really easy for them just watch TV on your phone and you'll be done with them.

Chitra Iyer [00:08:28] No seriously, I mean it helps that we make more and more payments on our smartphone Of course. And then we watch TV on our smartphones. We're just making life easier for marketers to track us and target us. Thank you very much. But if you'd like just zoom out and look get the bigger picture for a second it's really about connecting the offline and on an online marketing piece, isn't it? Or should I say the inevitability of ensuring that on device brand experience connects really smoothly with the physical brand experience right? For example, take the recent announcement of Facebook tying up with Macy's for these physical pop up stores. So the company whose goal it was to provide a digital or virtual platform to engage or shop or whatever like Amazon or Facebook are now starting to offer ways for audiences to connect or engage with them even in the physical world. And I think there's a pretty clear connection between. There seems to be a trend of tieing in location-based marketing to this entire thing.

David Raab [00:09:35] Yeah I think we can safely say it's a trend once Amazon and Facebook start doing anything it qualifies as a trend.

Amit varshneya [00:09:45] Sorry to take this discussion back but I'm a little dense about this whole Facebook thing I've just been trying to figure out ways that this is any different I mean, Macy's anyway is a multi-brand store and so they have all these different businesses with brands. You have a popup store. Great. What does Facebook have to do with it? How does being Facebook any difference?.

David Raab [00:10:07] And I think that's right. I think that it's a way they're taking online retailers who presumably are in some fashion promoting or selling through Facebook directly or indirectly. And these are people who are good at generating online traffic and have a large fan base and now they're saying they're putting it in the store. So those who can go after their online traffic and say hey you probably haven't set foot Macy's in 10 years. But now I'm in Macy's. So come in you know to stop by and visit. So it's a way for Macy's to generate physical traffic and it's a way for Facebook I think to have a little publicity that's positive publicity is hey we're supporting small business where we're not always evil.

Chitra Iyer [00:11:06] micro conversations getting into those micro-communities it's not again about taking a retailer and giving them the whole world as a canvas but really taking local retailers and putting them in front of local markets.

Chitra Iyer [00:11:19] Yeah I guess it recognizes that the nature of engagement in marketing is changing. Personalization is totally you know taking on different forms and for large enterprises with global audiences is different and smaller brands that serve local communities also need those opportunities to personalize.  So I guess Facebook just wants to be there for both opportunities. Speaking of Facebook David, your favorite topic is back in the news again which is privacy. Now there's been this complaint filed. I'm guessing it's in Europe obviously by Privacy International with the Information Commissioner's Office. They are citing grave concerns are the data processing activities of these largely aggregating and Adtech firms including Oracle. But what stands out to me in that announcement is that their concern is essentially against basically what the marketing pitch of most customer data and identify vendors in the world today not just  Europe. They say, and I quote, by using a variety of inputs Data brokers can make intrusive inferences about individuals meaning that the output of the analysis is greater than the sum of its parts' Well I mean, this is what marketers do right.  in case of an unfavorable ruling Wouldn't it be devastating to the whole customer experience,  customer journey,   customer identity resolution industry itself?

David Raab [00:12:53] The complaint is very very broad it basically attacks the entire model of what data brokers do. They say that advertisers connect with customers and they seem to feel that this is a bad thing. Data Cloud aggregates, analyzes, activates consumer data. OK. Yes, they do but So it's really at least an attempt to say this is a business model that is just fundamentally in violation of GDPR. These people really just should not be in business at all. It does not about do they get consent properly, Not not about specific violations. Just say you know businesses that aggregate data just shouldn't be allowed. So it's a very fundamental kind of a challenge that we're all you know whether the data commissioners do anything with it. We won't know for some time but at least then you know the challenge has been laid down. And so now we'll see how it gets picked up.

David Raab [00:14:01] So it's the start of I think a resolution of some of the uncertainty that we've had about this since GDPR was implemented. And of course, we have privacy coming up too. So they'll be really related to a privacy issue. So it's exactly how the process has to work. We have a rule now we have to see how the commissioners interpreted eventually sooner or later we'll know what's going to be allowed or not allowed and then we can kind of get on with our lives and right now we're in this sort of an in-between time where we don't quite know what's going to be allowed in a year or two. And it's a little disconcerting as you can imagine. But there's been some really interesting work in using you know blockchain, for example, to track consent in a nice reliable unbreakable way, secure away. And that maybe something that begins to address some of that. So even if you say well you can't be a data broker because you could never be sure if the consent was properly gathered or not. Well now I know now if I have a blockchain object it's attached to it I will know if the consent was really gathered and secure away and then I can go back to being a data broker or whatever form of data brokerages allowed.

Amit varshneya [00:15:07] They're taking aim at almost these pivotal players in ad tech with data with axiom I'm assuming when it says axiom it's probably the live ramp part of axiom or just a data onboarding part of axiom. Oracle, The blueky part and then Tap hat and critical as well. These guys were pretty solid in the space along with experience anyway.

Chitra Iyer [00:15:36] so they don't just have an issue with the way data is collected but also how it's used. I mean irrespective of how it's collected. If I'm reading that right and it's funny because in the last few episodes we've been talking about how marketers need to actually make a tighter connection between their first and third party data you know to really build that comprehensive customer identity. David you think, all that is at risk now?

David Raab [00:15:57] Well the third party piece of it for sure. That's right. There's an argument that regulating third-party data making it less accessible is good for the companies who will make more use of their first-party data which is the focus of most CDP is even that would seem to be technically can handle third-party data as well. But by and large the CDP is focused on the first-party data but that that makes owning your own data more important because you can't go out and buy it. So you have to get asked for your settlement and gathered consent all.

Chitra Iyer [00:16:28] Yeah. So the very important lesson here I think for all marketers is you really got to start with how you are gathering first-party data and how valuable you are using it ,how cleverly you are using it now and you know putting the foundations in place so that should a situation arise where data aggregation from third parties is not something that's on the cards in many major markets for you-you have your lifeless body data which is all you have really to fall back on to do your marketing.

David Raab [00:16:58] Right and take consent rules seriously. There was a study that came out. You saw this week I think was 40 percent of the companies in this study said  We're not even trying to comply with consent rules because we don't think they'll be enforced or they don't think they apply to us every day they apply to everyone. So you know as companies become more concerned about making sure that they are using data that's been properly consented if that's a verb you're going to have to make sure that your collection capabilities really are doing what they're supposed to do you're not going to be able to get away with being lax and hoping the rules don't get enforced. It's just might be the risk to take you to know even if they're not enforced. You don't know for sure and if they are enforced and you're not ready you can be in big trouble.

Chitra Iyer [00:17:48] Wouldn't this actually make a stronger case for smaller players to then be selling off of platforms like Amazon or Facebook or whatever. Would it work this way that I give content to Facebook to use their services which automatically means people who are selling on Facebook, for example, they can market to me wherever I go because it would be impossible to give consent to each and every small seller of ties and socks and all of that?

David Raab [00:18:17] That's right and that's why these kinds of rules very much favor companies like Facebook and Amazon because of Google because they will get the consent. And as long as you advertise on their platform. You are benefiting from the consent that they've granted it's you know whether it's a good social thing to give more power to those platforms. This is highly debatable and something that people worry about is something that companies worry about because obviously, they're giving up a lot of power to those you are just at the mercy. Yeah. And you know I mean I don't want to be reduced to doing a pop-up store in Macy's once a year because Facebook is generously allowed me to do that.

Chitra Iyer [00:18:59] Yeah you heard it. Marketers. Take consent and first-party data very seriously or as you know the more things change the more they remain the same. We'll be back to being at the mercy of social platforms that they blanket consent from audiences for using their free services in lieu of watching your ads. And with that discussion you know while it seems to be really wide-ranging I think there are strong connections like I mentioned at the beginning between location-based marketing IoT and smartphones bridging the online and offline customer experience and of course data privacy first-party data and third-party data. And with that, it's a wrap on this episode of the Talking Stack. We'll see you next Monday. Till then have a great week.

 [00:19:51] Thanks for joining us. See you next week with our take on the big news and Martech world. Log on to Martech advisor dot com for more expert commentary on All Things Martech.


The Podcast Team

David Raab

Founder, CDP Institute and Principal, Raab AssociatesWidely recognized independent expert in customer data platforms, marketing technology and analytics; David specializes in marketing trends, technology strategy, and vendor

Anand Thaker

Martech Industry and Growth AdvisorA recognized MarTech, decisioning and AI/ML expert; Anand advises growth and go-to-market leaders and investors for global brands and funds while also being active in the startup ecosystem.

Chitra Iyer

Editor-in-Chief of Martech Advisor Editor-in-Chief of Martech Advisor and marketing veteran is the host of the show.